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Nov 5, 2019
Peter Mondavi is a 3rd generation wine maker and the co-proprietor of the Charles Krug Winery, the oldest commercial winery in Napa Valley. Napa Valley has seen decades of amazing wine production but a changing climate has created new hurdles for the industry. We sit down with Peter to understand what issues sit top of mind for the industry and how vintners (wine makers) are managing these new risks.
This week on Agriculture Adapts:
– Will Napa be able to grow its favorite wine, Cabernet Sauvignon, as the climate heats up in the region?
– In 2017 wildfires tore through Northern California wine country — how was the industry affected and how are they adapting?
– Can drought actually be good for wine grapes?
Borna (ClimateAi) 0:03
This is Agriculture Adapts by ClimateAI. Every week we speak with industry leading executives farmers, and academics to get a 360 view of how the agriculture sector is innovating to stay ahead of a changing climate. I’m your host Borna Poursheikhani. And
Himanshu (ClimateAi) 0:17
I am your host Himanshu Gupta.
Borna (ClimateAi) 0:20
We’re a team of climate scientists and agriculture entrepreneurs trying to make farming more resilient, profitable and equitable as we transition to a new age of agriculture. This podcast is our journey as we explore the hurdles and opportunities that lie ahead for the industry to feed the world. Hello, and welcome. Today we have another exciting episode for you all. with us here today is Peter Mondavi from the legendary Charles Krug winery based in the beautiful Napa Valley. Peter, thank you for joining us.
Peter Mondavi 0:47
Well, thank you mean the invitation here.
Borna (ClimateAi) 0:49
Yeah. Before we started, Peter graciously said that if this podcast goes well Himanshu and I will be walking out with a free bottle of wine. So to get that on record for the public,
Peter Mondavi 0:59
I’ma tell trudge Yeah.
Borna (ClimateAi) 1:02
So your guys’s wines have built up a pretty strong name in California. I remember my family growing up used to drink your guys’s wines might be a good place to start by just hearing the background on how you guys came to be and how you guys were founded.
Peter Mondavi 1:16
Yeah, well, I could take up most of the podcast begins in the detail, so I’ll do a real very high level aspect. So my grandparents immigrated from Italy through Ellis Island in 1908, settled in Minnesota, they were not farmers, they were not vintners in Italy or anything, just really peasants coming over. And during Prohibition, which started about 1920 1919 actually in that area, he saw an opportunity for the local Italians that they had a need for grapes, wine grapes for making homemade wine during Prohibition because you couldn’t buy it. So my grandfather made his trek to California to secure wine grapes and ship them back to the community so they can make homemade wine during prohibition. This turned into quite a unique business opportunity and my grandfather turned it in an entrepreneur moved the family out to California in 1922. To further this business, became very successful. And that allowed my grandparents to purchase Charles Krug winery in 1943. So today we’re in our 76th year of family ownership, but the winery into the fourth generation, but there’s a little more history as well with our family. So my dad, Peter and my uncle Robert, ran the winery together from the 40s until the mid 60s. And that’s the point when Robert my uncle left in 1966 and started up his winery with some partners of course Robert Mondavi winery. Shortly after Roberts departure, my dad bought out Roberts ownership and Charles Krug. So this remains wholly owned by my dad’s lineage. Robert built up his empire and sold it off in 2004. And then his kids went off to start other wineries here. Napa Valley. So that’s kind of the quick version of our family history.
Borna (ClimateAi) 3:05
So you guys would also the first way, not in Napa Valley.
Peter Mondavi 3:08
Charles Kruger is the first Napa Valley. It’s the oldest winery, oldest commercial winery in Napa Valley, very instrumental in developing the wine industry, very active. A lot of people worked in the seller’s here and then moved on and started neighboring wineries here. And then we were very early on as well. We came here in Napa Valley and 33 right after repeal wasn’t until 10 years later, we bought the Charles Krug winery. So back then there’s probably about a dozen or less wineries. But contrast that today and there’s almost 500 wineries located throughout Napa Valley, and many more brands than that.
Borna (ClimateAi) 3:49
What would you say differentiates you guys from the other operations? There’s 500 plus like it, it seems like a pretty tough place to be competing. How do you differentiate both in your processes and then maybe your Marketing as well,
Peter Mondavi 4:00
differentiating is well, it’s key because it’s a very fragmented, busy market out there cluttered market out there. What sets us apart is our family heritage. We go back now for generations, there’s only two other wineries out of the five, almost 500 that can boast going that far back. From a generational family ownership standpoint. We own a series of vineyards throughout Napa Valley from Howe mountain de seine Lena to youngsville down to the southern end in Carneros area. So we have a really broad spectrum of vineyards and land a supplier portfolio, which is largely a state driven meaning all from our own vineyards. And it’s really the passion of the family that is continued on for generations that differentiates us and not to mention our continuity and experience.
Borna (ClimateAi) 4:52
And before we got on the podcast you were mentioning that different plots of land will put out different quality wines does each different plot land that you work with have a different label on it. Are they all being put into some sort of like mixture and sold or
Peter Mondavi 5:06
we do blend a lot of these plots however With that said, we do have and we’re best known for our Cabernets. We we’ve made a Cabernet back in 1944 and been making it ever since. We do today have what we call vineyard designates. So we have three different Cabernets coming from three different vineyards. So I get Swenson volts and how mountain cold springs vineyards. And even though they’re all Cabernet made hair at the same winery and same winemaker, they’re all distinctly different.
Borna (ClimateAi) 5:41
Interesting. And I guess, on this topic of Cabernet Sauvignon, this is as you mentioned, a very popular one coming out of Napa. Himanshu and I have been doing some reading and some people seem to believe in the next 20 or 30 years, a lot of people won’t be able to grow Cabernet Sauvignon in Napa Valley, claiming that the winglet index is going to grow making it difficult and correct me if I’m saying the wrong terminology here, but have you been hearing that? Or is that something you guys are planning for? Do you think that’s an actual issue or not really
Peter Mondavi 6:09
well, that that is, you know, being discussed and certain corners here. There will no doubt be an impact on the industry here at Napa Valley. How big of an impact and what comes out of it is a big unknown. And the other thing is, is we’re a rather unique area. And I’m not saying that that we’re going to be sidestepping climate change, we definitely will not. But we have both a marine influence and an inland influence where we’re located here in Napa Valley. So any given warm summer day, we could have a 20 degree differential from the northern end of Napa Valley, more inland type weather to the southern end where Carneros says more marine influence. So Today and historically, the Napa Valley is not a uniform area for whether the western hills the mayacamas range gets a lot more rain than the vakre range on the eastern side and just visually looking at them, they’re distinctly different. And so we have so many different microclimates here. It’s unbelievable. So sure there will be areas I think that are be less conducive to growing Cabernet in the long haul and decades to come. And there could be some areas in the south which are not today conducive for growing Cabernet, but maybe more conducive to growing Cabernet as as the climate changes.
Borna (ClimateAi) 7:42
A lot of these growers can potentially just move to a location where it is conducive to Cabernet Sauvignon where the climate has changed and maybe the place where they’re currently growing but these new plots of land presumably will be able to go Cabernet Sauvignon.
Peter Mondavi 7:55
Well, they’re not new plots of land. These are all existing vineyards, but In the south and the Carneros region, it’s planted more cooler weather grapes, for example Pinot Noir and Chardonnay dominate the southern end of Napa Valley. So as you move above that region, then you get into the the Cabernets and you know, Bordeaux varietals things like that. And it’s a little easier said than done because these are existing vineyards, existing owners and you just don’t pick up and move down and buy a new plot. land prices are quite high here in Napa Valley and land does sell but not there’s not a lot of transactions throughout the year because the, you know, the prices continue to go up here in Napa Valley.
Himanshu (ClimateAi) 8:44
So it seems like Peter, what you were mentioning is within Napa itself. There are a lot of plots, which have a more stable climate was is the other plots which have a more variable climate and are going to be more impacted because of climate change.
Peter Mondavi 8:57
Well, I think they’ll all be impacted by Climate change, but because of the confluence of the marine portion of the valley and then the more inland portion and where they come together, I think the degree of climate change is really unknown. As an example, we there is a study done a few years ago by the Napa Valley vintners and looking at the historical records and what can we document and there’s been a little bit of warming, but the warming has been associated with a nighttime temperatures, mainly from January through August. So the nighttime lows have not been as low by a degree or two. However, there’s also some evidence that the daytime temperatures have actually cooled a little bit in that period. So again, that confluence of the marine and then inland Paris. I think it makes it a fairly unique and complex with regards to climate change.
Borna (ClimateAi) 10:07
I think last time you and I spoke, you had just been getting back from a visit to France. And you were mentioning that there, the weather patterns have changed and the climate had changed, such that they were forced to sort of change regulation on what would qualify as a certain type of wine in order to accommodate the shift. Can you speak a little bit more about that?
Peter Mondavi 10:26
They’re being very pre emptive because Bordeaux, they’ve experienced the warming there as well. However, I think it’s been a little more beneficial for them because Bordeaux historically kind of runs on the ragged edge of the cooler limits of Cabernet, so they have some absolutely phenomenal vintages for Cabernet. And then there’s some villages that are less than ideal. Let’s put it that way. Those less than ideal vintages are diminishing, and they’re getting more frequency of Good to Great vintages in Bordeaux. So the warming there I believe has helped. This is a general statement. For the Bordeaux reds. They think there’s other varieties and wines they’re producing there that may be a little bit more sensitive and a little less forgiving. But with that said, they’re really taking a proactive approach because the regulations in Europe, France and in this case Bordeaux, are very stringent and a lot different than what we do here. So they are highly restricted as to the varieties they can blend into their wines in Bordeaux and still categorize it as Bordeaux. For the reds. I think there’s six or seven varieties and that’s it. They are now looking at allowing another two to four varieties of warm weather Other warmer weather varieties of reds grown typically in Spain and other parts of Europe that are much warmer, align those be planted in Bordeaux and blend it in and still maintaining the Bordeaux appellation. So they’re proactively working at that.
Borna (ClimateAi) 12:19
Himanshu (ClimateAi) 12:20
So, when we talk about climate change, everyone thinks that Okay, there is a global warming component and 2030 years from now, a particular area will be two degrees, four degrees or six degrees warmer than average. But what we’re also experiencing and Europe has also experienced is the increase in frequency of extreme events like headwinds, Euro experience three major events the last five years. Could you talk a bit more about how those heat events will impact wine operations from a perspective of let’s say, in Europe was in the Napa Valley?
Peter Mondavi 12:53
Yeah, as far as the weather the short term stuff, day to day week to week type things. We are getting more Significant fluctuations with respect to that. We’ve been adjusting our viticultural techniques to adapt to that. And just a couple of examples. With these brief heat spells that we seem to be seen more often are more extreme. They may be only a few days long, but we used to be more aggressive in what we call leafing that’s removing the leaves that shadow that grape bunches. Now if you have direct sunlight on the grape bunches, the flavors the tannins, the colors develop better. So it’s advantageous to remove the leaves so the fruit, the bunches of grapes get direct sunlight. However, during these extreme heat spells, you can get sunburn, which is clearly detrimental to the quality of the grapes. So now we’re being much more careful on this leafing or de leafing less aggressive relieving lewbert leaves on or doing it later in the season to minimize that exposure. So that’s just one example of how we’re altering our viticultural techniques in the vineyards to adapt to these dramatic weather fluctuations. Another one is, you know, brown this time of the year, we can get these very dry, hot winds, humidities down to 10%. And, you know, elevated temperatures way in the Upper 90s. You know, this is something, you know, relatively new in the last decade or so. So what we do is we see these, we look at the weather forecasts, we see these approaching and we’ll actually do a little bit of drip irrigation in the vineyard to make up for the evaporation. The excessive evaporation occurs during these brief periods. So the the fruit does not shrivel up as much because you’ll definitely see, in a couple days, the fruit start to dimple as it shrivels up as it kind of dehydrates in these conditions. And then also, you know, have to mention, I mean, the horrendous fires that we’ve experienced here a couple of years ago. Your current about the same time very hot, very dry, extremely windy. Now that’s becoming a much bigger issue that directly impacts the entire community here.
Borna (ClimateAi) 15:30
So when you’re talking about these winegrapes, shriveling up, it’s my understanding that like, drought like conditions are somewhat beneficial for wine grapes. So what distinguishes those two climatic events like? Is it not true that if the plant undergoes like a stress in terms of a drought, the flavor is more concentrated?
Peter Mondavi 15:52
Yes, that’s absolutely true. And we monitor it very, very closely. We were always looking at the moisture In the soil we’re looking at the vines you know what’s their uptake of moisture you know so our vineyards are remain dry farmed because there’s a reasonable amount of moisture in the soil. Some we do need to supplement we do have drain tile which are perforated pipes that are buried six eight feet down to really to drain out any excess moisture or water there so we’d like to do is kind of keep the vines kind of on the ragged edge of I wouldn’t say drought but yeah keep keep them alive but not too happy with with water. It’s not like other forms of agriculture where you just want to pour on the water and then it equates to higher crops, bigger yields. Sure we could do that. But the flavors of our wines would be very thin, very light. So we control that very carefully. And like I say some of our video Because of the the terroir they’re in are still, for the most part dry farmed.
Borna (ClimateAi) 17:06
Got an interesting and yeah, I was reading that, correct me if this is not related to what I just said. But sometimes wineries will send people through to trim off some of the grapes of the flavor gets more concentrated than those that still exists. Like it’s not a matter of just quantity. But the quantity and the quality are directly linked is that
Peter Mondavi 17:23
Yeah, they’re there. I mean, quality here in Napa Valley is absolutely paramount, kind of trumps everything else here. There will be crop thinning, several reasons and each vineyard is different. I mean, one vineyard may be optimal at two and a half tons per acre. Another vineyard might be optimal at you know, four tons to the acre. It really depends on on really the terroir, I mean, the soils and the weather in the immediate area, things like that. So there’s no one set formula there. So if vine is optimal quality at three Three and a half times the acre, then we we try to shoot for that, first of all we prune accordingly to get a yield in that range, if that’s what the vineyard is telling us. And then if it over crops, which we can, from time to time, have additional bunches of grapes on the vine more than we expected. Then we can go in and in remove some of the extra bunches. There’s also something called Green thinning that we do for a quality perspective is as the grapes go through version, this is late spring, early summer, they go from hard green berries to they start to color up, you know, almost black in color for Cabernet. And sometimes it’s very uniform, which is great. Sometimes there’s stragglers, there’s parts of bunches that just kind of like take their sweet time to turn, you know, go through version because the maturation difference Time on the single vine we’ll we can go through and cut those off. It’s called Green thinning so that we have a uniform, uniformly ripening crop during harvest.
Borna (ClimateAi) 19:12
And then going back to the other point that you mentioned about the wildfires like that is a big concern specially here in California. I think the stats are like that wildfires right now compared to 20 or 30 years ago happen five times more frequently. They burned five times longer, and they burned five times the land. So what specifically I think the fire novel was in 2017. I’m not mistaken. Yeah,
Peter Mondavi 19:31
Borna (ClimateAi) 19:33
So how did that affect the winds both from a flavor standpoint, but then also how are people preparing for the fires that they saw that they were coming in their direction?
Peter Mondavi 19:41
First to note is it happened in October so most of the grapes were actually been harvested and we’re in the winery and tanks So pretty much sealed up away from any impact of smoke. there still was some Cabernet that was out there. And of the Cabernet. That was still sitting on the vine not all of it was directly impacted by the fire. Those that were just engulfed in a lot of smoke depending on the situation where they were their location. You know the smoke density is varied wildly here in Napa Valley. There were some lots of Cabernet that are showing smoke taint their flavor in the flavor wow these are the ones that grapes were still out there there’s a lot of the Cabernet was already harvested and in the tanks and not affected by this but what was left there were some lots fortunately, none of our vineyards were pretty much far away from the immediate fires. But we’ve we’ve tasted our Cabernet lots they were harvested before the fire and after the fire rotates that I’m blind to figure out how can we tell if you know which ones before the fire which ones after and we couldn’t we couldn’t discern anything. So the lots were happy with a lots of Cabernet that we have for that vintage, but we do know there are lots out there. But I think they’re probably being sold in the bulk market and blended into you know, larger batches of loonies. Yeah.
Borna (ClimateAi) 21:10
Yeah. Okay. Interesting.
Himanshu (ClimateAi) 21:13
So what are you or other vineyard owners thinking about like wildfire risk?
Peter Mondavi 21:18
It’s a huge issue for us big concern. The most immediate concern is extended power outages. In the middle of harvest. The leading concern is the fermentation of the wines. So what happens is, you know, we harvest in this, you know, to talk in October, we harvest Carinae, arguably the highest value crop that we have here, and if you have a very active fermentation, one of the byproducts of fermentation is heat, in fact, lots of heat, so you have to keep these tanks refrigerated to control the temperature To 8085 degrees Fahrenheit, if you don’t refrigerate them, they’ll immediately within hours climb up to Oh 105 or there abouts. And at that point, the yeast kill themselves off in the in the high heat and your tank is basically spoiled. So the actions that we’ve action that we have taken another whiners have taken as we actually have a large standby generator for the month of October to power our refrigeration. We can stop crushing for a few days and things like that, but an act of fermentation. That’s a natural process, and there’s no intervening on that. So we have to have refrigeration, operating in that tank 24 hours a day, seven days a week.
Borna (ClimateAi) 22:48
Got it. And when you talk about using these generators because of power outages, that’s with reference to like pg&e, which is our local utility here. Cutting power essentially because there’s some level of fire risk is that way you’re
Peter Mondavi 23:00
Yeah, two things. One is if there is a elevated fire risk, and we talked about the conditions earlier, you know, very low humidity, very high temperatures, and very windy. pg&e will preemptively turn the power off. And it’s not just let’s say this condition only last 12 hours or 24 hours. Once that condition is clear, pg&e appropriately so has to inspect all the power lines to make sure nothing has fallen on them in the high wind situations. And that could take I’ve heard two days to five days. So even if they say turn it off, and let’s say things pass in 12 hours, we’re still looking at two to five days of a power outage, even if no fire has occurred.
Borna (ClimateAi) 23:49
Just for some more background for folks who are from California. pg&e was sued over the last two years for billions of dollars because the power lines were found to be basically responsible for these fires. There’s an area but yeah, that’s interesting. And so what are people doing to basically prevent against, like people’s wineries getting burned or vineyards being burned down or is there not enough like brush for the vineyards to actually catch on fire?
Peter Mondavi 24:14
Well, one thing that was demonstrated was vineyards are very good firebreaks Don’t get me wrong, there is some damage in vineyards, especially ones where fires burned right up next to them. But typically, we did not see the fire just going through the vineyard. It would stop at the vineyard Sherwood singe the the primitive the vineyards, and you would lose vines, things like that. But for the most part, it’s an excellent firebreak because there’s very little grass in there the laser quite green, so it’s beneficial there. wineries, there were a couple wineries that were lost. The biggest impact was really to the community and and housing especially in Santa Rosa. area was was quite devastated there. So except for a handful of wineries, it was not to minimize it was very significant inconvenience for wineries, but nothing like the impact it had on the community. So were a lot of these
Borna (ClimateAi) 25:17
operations being shut down or slow during the wildfires due to like smoky air unhealthy conditions, or just fire risk in general.
Peter Mondavi 25:27
For us during those fires in October A few years ago, we shut the winery down for several days. We had no choice our employees were evacuating their houses, roads were closed, you could not navigate through here very easily, with a lot of restrictions on the roads. Actually, power was not too bad during that time. But we shut down for a couple days and then had a skeleton crew for maybe five more days as as people settled back in their houses and things started to settle down a bit. Fortunately, none of our employees lost their their housing so they had their houses to get back to you says quite quite fortunate.
Himanshu (ClimateAi) 26:08
You know, I live in San Francisco Peter and it’s very difficult for me to buy fire insurance for the area and for the house I’m living in. So after that even did you purchase a new fight insurance or an a, you know, it’s easy to get that in the Napa and Sonoma Valley?
Peter Mondavi 26:24
Well, from a residential standpoint, it is getting much more difficult, especially if you’re living up in the hills in the forested area. That’s some people are losing their their fire insurance. So far here at the winery, we’re located really well within the city limits of St. Halina. That’s absurd. So people who were already purchasing fire insurance aren’t being like grandfathered in or anything. There. There’s some people who’ve had an existing fire insurance policy getting pulled, and then renewals you know, five to 10 times higher in some of the costs If they can get it. So here at the winery, we’re fine so far, we sit in the middle of 147 acre vineyard. So from a fire standpoint, I think we’re in a fairly relatively safe location.
Himanshu (ClimateAi) 27:15
We talked about drought speeder and on the opposite end of the spectrum is extreme precipitation or rainfall. I think when we were talking earlier, you talked about how untimely rainfall during the time of harvest could end up hurting the industry. So curious to get your thoughts there. Two things there is you get
Peter Mondavi 27:35
severe or high precipitation rates, tremendous amount of rain falling that is typically associated with our winter season. We typically don’t get much rain during the the grind and harvest season. So the big concern about those, you know, severe rains in the winter is really just mechanical damage, rivers, overflowing tearing through a vineyard and uprooting vines. That’s the biggest concern that we have. From that standpoint. The vines at that point are dormant. They could sit under water and they have for a day or so as the waters reside. That’s not a problem. It’s really just mechanical damage on the vines and the community as well. Now if we start getting weather changes during the growing season, we have yeah susceptible times. Set that’s when the grape flowers actually pollinated if you have adverse weather during them rain, cold or excessive heat or when you don’t get as much pollination, you get what you call shatter. So not every grape is developed. So you ever reduce crop. If you start getting more rain throughout the growing season, then you have a higher mildew and mold pressures. So we haven’t seen much of that yet. And then during harvest, you have the same problem. You start getting rain during harvest then you can have the mold, mildew pressures as well. But we haven’t seen that all that much. Really that we look at and it pertains to Cabernet here is if it’s a cooler later growing season and pushes harvest the end of harvest the late October sometimes early November. Then you start to get our traditional winter storms coming in and and that last little bit of Cabernet out there do I wait for the storm to go through or pick it before the storm? Last vintages like 2011 but the weather we have here is pretty ideal. You go to Europe, Bordeaux parts of Italy they struggle a lot more with their weather.
Borna (ClimateAi) 29:44
I think one of my favorite things that you told me last time we were talking was the story about the hail cannon which I had no clue existed.
Peter Mondavi 29:52
Yeah. If I were recently in Bordeaux and they do have an Italy does it have it has it as well, but some significant hail storms will come through and take not the entire wine growing region but we’ll take a swath out and really delete the entire vineyard. It’s unbelievable the look at some of the pictures. And they have this these hail cannons, how effective they are. I don’t know. We don’t have them. We don’t we unfortunately don’t need them here. But they have a weather radar in the vineyard. And when it senses, clouds or situations, I guess in the atmospheric situations that are conducive to hail, they will send this this Sonic Blast off, you know from the ground pointing up into the clouds, and it’s supposed to disrupt the formation of hail.
Himanshu (ClimateAi) 30:50
We also saw like wine, you know, a beer label in your office. Are you like Could you talk a bit more about like your plans in beer business or like
Peter Mondavi 30:59
yeah A friend of mine found this old I don’t know 50s maybe wine I think from Central us that says it’s crude, crude beer crude, not Charles crude, so nothing to do with us. I think that businesses is long gone. Now we’re gonna stick with the Napa Valley wine business. That’s where love and passion and expertise resides.
Borna (ClimateAi) 31:27
If people want to support your wine or support your business, how can they go about doing that?
Peter Mondavi 31:33
Well, you could visit us on Charles cruise comm we have wine club, you could join we have a series of events here at the winery we host and our wine is is distributed throughout all 50 states. So you should be able to find it and find it in some of your finer restaurants and wine stores and other outlets.
Borna (ClimateAi) 31:54
Awesome. Well, thank you so much for joining us today. I think that was an awesome call. I learned a lot
Himanshu (ClimateAi) 32:00
You know a lot about wines today.
Peter Mondavi 32:02
Great. Well, thank you very much and hopefully spend a little bit of enlightening.
Borna (ClimateAi) 32:08
Hey, everybody, thanks for listening if you have any feedback or you’d like to add your own two cents on the topic discussed today, or if you’ve just got your own ideas about something that we should discuss in the future, please feel free to shoot me an email at firstname.lastname@example.org. At its core, this podcast is just a way for us to learn and we want to share our learnings as we go. So we’re always open to building on these conversations and hearing new perspectives. Thanks for your support and see you next time.
Co-Proprietor at Charles Krug Winery